YOUTUBE | THE HILL | MARCH 11, 2024
PHOTO SOURCE | FORBES BREAKING YOUTUBE CHANNEL
Transcript (auto-generated)
good afternoon I’d like to call this hearing to order and Welcome to our Witnesses Director of NationalIntelligence of real Haynes CI director Bill Burns FBI director Chris Rayassistant secretary for intelligence and research at the state department Brett Homam Director of National SecurityAgency General Timothy Hawk and defense intelligence agency Dia directorLieutenant General Jeffrey Cruz thank you for appearing today before the Senate intelligencecommittee’s annual worldwide threats hearing it is important for Congress andfor the American people to hear directly from the leaders of our intelligence Community about the threats andchallenges facing the United States I’d like to First acknowledge the women andmen of the US Intel Community most Americans will never see the work you dobehind the scenes but be assured that the members of this committee know itsimportance and we thank you for what we do to keep America safe the threatenvironment today is perhaps one of the most challenging we’ve seen in recent years we see nations backsliding fromdemocratic institutions we see authoritarian systems seeking to impose their will upon neighbors while lookingto undermine the International System that has been guarantor of security andstability since World War II and we see the rise in competition around newtechnologies we must ensure that our institutions including the IC evolve tomeet these new challenges which means in my mind redefining what we think of asNational Security the IC was built to collect measures of hard power how many shipsplanes and military personnel an adversary might have but the nature ofstrategic competition today revolves as much about not only traditional militarypower but around non-traditional tools and the ability to harness emerging dualuse Technologies for example advanced communication networks can provideubiquitous connectivity but also ubiquitous surveillancesurveillance artificial intelligence can accelerate accelerate software development but can also acceleratemalicious cyber attacks or the spread of misinformation biotechnologyadvancements may lead one day to curing cancer or eliminating famine but alsoMay create new pathogens or even as some have warmed genetically engineered supersoldiers and access to Rare Earth minerals may help determine who shapesthe energy future for the whole world comp compounding all of this the natureof conflict increasingly allows adversaries to project power throughasymmetrical means for example cyber attacks can disable criticalinfrastructure from thousands of miles away and are increasingly available to awidening array of actors inexpensive unmanned systems drones canthreaten multi-billion dollar ships we are now even seeing the possibility of for adversaries weaponizing space inways that could be massively destructive not only to our national security but to our way of life and useful tools such asGPS and satellite Communications similarly misinformationand disinformation are increasingly deployed cheaply by an array ofadversarial actors we all know that more than 60 countries over half the world’spopulation will vote this year and I am deeply concerned that democracyincluding in the United States is under greater threat than ever from these foreignadversaries Bad actors like Russia are particularly incentivized to interferegiven what’s at stake in Ukraine poll after poll increasingly demonstrate thatAmericans are distrustful of traditional sources of information and while I AI provides thetools to spread sophisticated misinformation ation at an unprecedentedspeed and scale admidst these threats our ability to respond has been hrung hamstrung asrecent leg litigation pending before The Supreme Court has had a chilling effect on the voluntary sharing of informationrelated to foreign malign influence threats between US government agenciesand social media companies so today I would like each each of our witnesses toreport on how their agencies and the IC as a whole are prepared and poised tomeet these Technology based challenges and what more needs to be done yet even with this new landscapemore traditional National Security challenges remain terrorist groups stillthreaten our homeland over the last couple of years we’ve seen authoritarian Powers challenging Democratic Normsundermining the international order and intim ating their neighbors the People’s Republic of Chinaunder xiin ping has presented an unprecedented challenge a technoauthoritarian beh Behemoth whose adversary Russia under Putin has continued its brutal invasionof Ukraine illegally using military forces to seize territory ukrainians have bravely beenfending off the Russian military for over two years supported by Partners around the world the Russian militaryhas suffered severe losses of men and Equipment a fact that close to 87% ofRussia’s prewar ground forces have been taken out of the conflict by eitherbeing killed or wounded and now as a result of his aggression Putin faceswhat he has always feared and NATO more united than ever that said this war isin critical phase with a serious imbalance of equipment and my fear is that thedecision thus far by the House of Representatives not to even take up legislation that would support Ukrainein their fight against Putin aggression has been one of the most shortsighted decisions on a national security issuethat I can possibly imagine without this assistance Ukrainian defenses will be disastrouslyundermined as well as Global confidence in America’s resolve will be underminedand that will be the case whether it comes from Putin in Europe or the PRC in Taiwan and as we convene this hearing wealso face continued instability in the Middle East the horrific terrorist attacks against Israel civilians byHamas on October 7th have been followed by an incursion by Israel that has costan estimated 30,000 Palestinians their lives and while Iran and its keyPartners such as Hezbollah appeared to be deterred from widen the conflict fornow other Iranian proxies such as the hoodis in Yemen and Iraqi Shia militiashave attempted to expand their conflict and drag in our country at the same timeIsrael’s war against Hamas has shown the difficulty of using military force aloneto eradicate a non-state actor embedded in a civilian population especially onethat has been so Adept at using underground tunnels and I worry thatprime minister netanyahu’s conduct in the war threatens to undermine support for Israel in the long term including inthe United States this international support has been key to Israel’ssecurity and as a longtime friend of Israel this has a great concern to mefor even Israel’s support in the United States in addition we convene thistimely hearing as Congress faces a pressing deadline on a key National Security program section 702 of theforeign intelligence surveillance act provides unique and critical foreign intelligencenecessary to protect our national security enabling the IC to prevent andthwart terrorist attacks track foreign spies uncover economic Espionageprotects US troops expose human and drug trafficking and disrupt foreign cyberattacks allowing this program to lapse would critically damage our nationalsecurity in closing we Face an increasing array of diversity of challenges but we also have anopportunity to reinvigorate America’s democratic values in face of autocracieslike China and Russia we cannot take for granted either democracy or the theInternational System that has kept Americans safe for decades maintainingboth requires leadership conviction and sacrifice withthat let me now turn to the Vice chairman thank you Mr chairman thank you all for coming here today and I also extend my thanks to the men and womenwho work underneath you that do the important work of of keeping our country safe at um what I think you coulddescribe as one of those pivot moments in history where what life will be like for a generation is being determined bywhat’s happening now and in the near future while events are changing perhaps faster than any other time in humanhistory I think it’s hard I think we have to remind ourselves if we’re going to talk about the specific threats thewhats of the why the the bigger outline picture of why things are happening the way they are happening because I dothink that they are all interrelated so from the end of the Cold War I don’t know when the end date isbut let’s say the late 2000s um we lived in a unipolar world United States wasbasically the only country in the world that could project power everywhere at every time and we were called upon to do many things uh in regards to that um butother nation states progress during that stage and I still think America by far by every measure you can imagineeconomically culturally militarily Remains the world’s strongest nation and should remain that way for theforeseeable future if we make the right choices that order that we’ve just that I just described is being challengedit’s being challenged by nation states that frankly don’t like the way the world looks now at least written by America and our allies and so theyincreasingly are taking it upon themselves at every opportunity to challenge them they at every domain theysteal our ideas on Innovation and so forth so that their companies can do the things that we do but of course do itcheaper and flood markets with those products I don’t need to tell this panel or the members of this committee and thegeneral public that they’re expanding their military capabilities in an extraordinary way uh to include notsimply projecting power in the indopacific but around the world they uh by the way they manipulate loopholes inour laws and in our systems in this country two buy a land buy up companiesuh gain strategic advantage in Industries and undermine our Industries in return they are a major part of flooding thiscountry with deadly drugs that are destroying communities and ravaging entirefamilies and uh they’ve also gotten very good at hiring lobbyists and even deputizing the corporate industryCorporate America to come up here and Lobby us for things that are beneficial to the Chinese goals at the expense ofthis country long term and I think it’s important to mention here today they also happen to control anybody says theydon’t doesn’t know what they’re talking about because every company in China is controlled by the Chinese Communist party they happen to control a companythat owns the world’s uh one of the world’s best artificial intelligence umartificial intelligence uh uh algorithms it’s the one that’s used in this countryby Tik Tok and it uses the data of Americans to basically read your mind and predict what videos you want to seethe reason why Tik Tok is so successful the reason why it’s so attractive is because it knows you better than youknow yourself and the more you use it the more it learns the problem is not Tik Tok or the videos the problem is thealgorithm that powers it is controlled by a company in China that must do whatever the Chinese Communist Partytells them to do and the only way that that algorithm works is of that company in China under the control of theChinese government is given access to the data that Tik Tok collects Tik Tok does not work without that algorithm andthat algorithm is controlled by a company that’s controlled by the Chinese Communist Party under the law ofChina in the case of uh Putin he also he actually sees America as decadent and inDecline and he views China Russia as resilient they view themselves as a great power and he believes that greatPowers have a right to buffer states he believes that great Powers have a right not just to have their own borders butto control the countries around their borders as buffer States I think they already have that in Belarus in his mindand it is one of the reasons why he invades Ukraine in the case of Iran they want to export their ShiaIslamic revolution to the entire Middle East and the problem with this is twothings standing in their way the state of Israel and the United States of America and so that is why they haveproxy groups in places like Syria in Iraq in Lebanon in Yemen in Gaza whothey use for their purposes one of their purposes is to use these groups now to attack Americans so that we will sayit’s not worth the trouble we need to get out of there and once we leave then then they’ll move on Jordan and onBahrain then they’ll make Israel an unlivable place and ultimately their Ambitions are the entire region and mostof the gulf kingdoms that’s why I think it’s a mistake to view the hor horrific events of October 7th as simply thelatest iteration of a long-standing Israeli Palestinian problem it is deeplytied to the head of this snake and the head of this snake is in Iran and in tyan add to all of these three countriesNorth Korea we haven’t heard a lot about it yet they have become increasing aggressive in fact I would argue that weperhaps are closer to some armed hostilities than we’ve been in a decade or longer um why why have become soaggressive they feel empowered they feel empowered because Putin is buying things from them and helping them to breaktheir International isolation and also because I don’t know what percentage of their economy is powered by uhransomware attacks and cyber hacking but it’s substantial they generate a lot of money from that and then add to allthese parades of horribles the fact that terror is still a threat Iran as has been publicly reported is still tryingto kill former government officials that live in the United States of America there are former government officials inthis country no longer in office who require 24 hours a day security because Iran is trying to kill them inside theUnited States Hezbollah an agent of Iran is also looking for ways to conductterrorist attacks against American interests and Israeli and Jewish interests all over the world and here inthe Homeland as well by the way Isis and Al-Qaeda are not out of business they are still involved at al-shabbab goal isa world friendlier and better for them and their interests and a world in which America is weakened and less able to actand all of these crisis begin to Interlock in a way that helped them for example the Chinese and the Russians are probably see great benefit no notprobably they do see great benefit what’s happening in the Middle East because they figure every dollar and every second of our attention that’spaid there is we’re not paying to what’s happening with Ukraine and we’re not paying to the indopacific um the Chinesesee great benefit in Ukraine as well because they view it as the more time and money we spend there the less timeand money and focus we have on them in fact one of the things I know the Chinese hope for is one of two things awe deplete ourselves in Ukraine or Andor the Middle East particularly Ukraine or B we cut and run and then they can goaround that threaten the security of our country is that they are increasingly partnering with one another another nota NATO alliance not the sort of formal alliance it’s written out but they are increasingly partnering with each otheron selected topics and it selected opportunities because they all share one goal and that is they want to weakenAmerica weaken our alliances we connected I I think that what life willbe like on this planet for the next generation will be determined very much by what we do or fail to do here overthe next two to three years and certainly with the issues that are before us today so I I look forward tohearing from all of you I appreciate you coming thank you Senator Rubio I think director Haynes leave you up first thankyou very much chairman Warner Vice chairman Rubio members of the committeethank you so much for the opportunity to be here today alongside my wonderful colleagues to present the icc’s annualthreat assessment and before I start I also want to thank publicly the people of the intelligence Community from TheCollector to the analyst and everybody in between we’re really presenting the result of their labor at this hearingand they work tirelessly every day to keep our country safe and prosperous and we are all very proud to represent themhere today I also want to take the opportunity to thank all of you for the extraordinary support that you’ve shownto the intelligence Community the ic’s relationship with its oversight committees is quite obviously criticallyimportant and you all work with us on a bipartisan basis and that is especially inspiring in today’s environment we’regrateful for your encouragement and for your wisdom today the United States faces an increasingly complex and interconnectedthreat as has been noted by the chairman and vice chairman environmentsay I recognize people feel passionately the American people deserve to hear from the leaders of theintelligence Community dror Haynes continue okay the second category is a set of more intense and unpredictabletransnational challenges such as climate change corruption narcotics traffickingHealth security terrorism and cyber crime cyber crime that often interactwith traditional state-based political economic and security challenges that the United States relies on to managesuch challenges and perhaps more than ever frankly highlight the need forsustained us leadership to uphold the rules-based order and I’ll just touch on these threecategories of challenges starting with strategic competition in China in an effort to provide some context andhighlight some of the intersection president XI continues to Envision Chinaas a leading power on the world stage and Chinese leaders believe it is essential to project power globally inorder to be able to resist us pressure for they are convinced that the United States will not tolerate a powerfulChina nevertheless 14.9% no major stimulus aimed atconsumption forthcoming massive local debts and a property Market contraction2024 is likely to be another another difficult year for China’s economy all against the backdrop of an aging andshrinking population and slowing economic growth and president XI is counting on China’s investments inTechnologies such as advanced manufacturing and robotic least some tangible costs on us firms even as theycontinue to moderate such actions to avoid domestic costs and Chineseleadership is furthermore pursuing a strategy to boost China’s indigenous Innovation and technologicalself-reliance expand their efforts to acquire steal or compel the productionof intellectual property and capabilities from others including the United States and continue to engage incoercive Behavior to control critical Global Supply chains of relevance in themeantime president she’s emphasis on control and Central oversight is unlikely to solve the challenges posedby China’s economic and endemic corruption demographic Decline andstructural economic constraints and over the coming year tension between these challenges and China’s aspirations forgreater geopolitical power will probably become all the more apparent given its Ambitions Beijing will continue to useits military forces to intimidate its neighbors and to shape the Region’s actions in accordance with the prc’spriorities we expect the pla will field more advanced platforms deploy newtechnologies and grow more competent in joint operations with a particularFocus the role intended for China’s growing nuclear forces and cyber capabilities in this effort and theultimate intent behind unprecedented growth in these areas remain a priorityfor us in the IC and they are not unrelated to actions of Russia PresidentPutin’s war of aggression against Ukraine continues unabated Ukraine’s Retreat from AA and their struggle toStave off further territorial losses Russian ammunition production and purchases from North Korea and Iran andmeanwhile President Putin is increasing defense spending in Russia reversing his long-standing reluctance to devote ahigh percentage of GDP to the military as he looks to rebuild in many ways thisis prompted by the fact that Russia has paid an enormous price for the war in Ukraine not only has Russia sufferedmore military losses than in any time since World War II messaging is important because Putin’s strategicgoals remain unchanged he continues to see NATO enlargement and Western support toUkraine as reinforcing his long-held belief that the United States and Europe seek to restrict Russian power andundermine him and of course in the meantime Russia continues to modernize and fortify its nuclear weaponscapabilities even though it maintains the largest and most diverse nuclearweapon stock pip which is evolving as these four countries expand collaboration through a web of bilateraland in some cases trilateral Arrangements this growing cooperation and willingness to exchange Aid inmilitary e economic political and intelligence matters enhances their individualcapabilities enhan enables them to cooperate on competitive actions assiststhem to further undermine the rules-based order and gives them each some insulation from externalInternational pressure and nevertheless we assess these relationships will remain far short of formal alliances ora multilateral access parochial interest desired to avoid entanglements and weariness of harm and stability fromeach other’s actions will likely limit their cooperation and ensure it advances incrementally absent direct conflictbetween one of these countries in the United States and nevertheless the power Dynamic will have a generational impacton terrorism both Al-Qaeda and Isis inspired by Hamas have directed supporters to conduct attacks againstIsraeli and US interests and we have seen how is it is inspiring individuals to conduct acts of anti-Semitism andislamophobic Terror worldwide in this third category of regional and localized conflicts we havemany more we might discuss including Haiti and Sudan and what is happening in the Eastern Democratic Republic of Congoand the list goes on and this finally brings me to 702 of the foreign intelligence surveillance act which willexpire on April 19th without congressional action the intelligence gathered pursuant to section 702 wasessential in preparing this annual threat assessment and is absolutely fundamental to every aspect of our workas I know you know 702 provides unique insights into foreign intelligence targets such as foreign adversariesterrorist organizations including Hamas weapons proliferators spies malicious cyber actors and Fentanyl Traertraffickers and it does so at a speed and reliability that we simply cannot replace with any other authority and asCongress pursues reauthorization we understand there will be reforms and we support those that bolster the compliance and oversite regimes in placewhile preserving the operational agility that is vital to keeping the nation safe thank you for your patience and we lookforward to your questions um thank you director Haynes let me goum for members and I appreciate I know we don’t normally do these on Monday I appreciate everybody coming in uh wewill be conducting a closed session um after uh this open session so membersshould hold any questions on a classified nature until after that and uh after the chair and vice chair gothrough our first round of question question will then recognize members in rounds of five minutes um all based onseniority director I I want to hes I want to start with where you ended up onon 702 um this critical component of um both law enforcement and theintelligence Community expires on April 19th Congress needs to act um 60% of allthe information that goes into the president’s Daily Brief uh is derived from 702 information Foreigner talkingto Foreigner in terms of bad guys um one of the things that the vice chairman and I are very proud of is we worked veryhard uh on a reform of section 702 thatwe introduced uh last year including 16 uh co-sponsors um great number ofmembers of this committee are part of um of that reform effort that again lookedat trying to make sure where there had been perhaps overzealous use at the FBIin terms of who was queried and how things were queried have been uh dramatically constrained um director RayI want to start my question though with you some have actually said though that where we went didn’t go far enough andthey would propose a reform that would require agencies to seek a warrantbefore conducting us person queries uh could you explain what would happen on apractical level both both from the IC side and the law enforcement side if if that um um requirement was put inplace thank you Mr chairman uh I think the short answer is that a warrant requirement for us to run us personqueries would be untenable and would largely gut the effectiveness of theauthority and I say that for several reasons first it would blind us toinformation already lawfully in our possession that we need to be able to review and act on in a very timessensitive way to be able to stop terrorist attacks protect the victim from a Cyber attack warn somebody who ispotentially targeted with assassination or kidnapping uh second in many instancesat the time that the query would be run we wouldn’t have the probable cause thatthe query term is associated with an agent of a foreign power that’s that’s what the query tells us uh and so yougot that problem and then the third problem is that that an awful lot of the places that we’re using 702 queries areto assist victims and to PR prevent potential victims from further attacks whether terrorist attacks cyber attacksEtc and so uh in those instances you’d never be able to get a warrant requirement even if there were some kindof delay built into it that alone uh for all these threats which are extremelytimes sensitive I think that the dni correctly used the term agility that is the key and so I would implore Congressuh not to take that additional step you mentioned the compliance failures I’ve been very clear that the compliancefailures that occurred at the FBI uh are wholly unacceptable and that’s why I put in place a whole host ofreforms uh which covering everything from training to our systems approvals oversight an office of internal audit Icould go on and on and those result those reforms are working the fisa court itself most recently found 98%compliance and commented on the reforms working the most recent justice department report found the reformsworking 99% compliance uh and so I think legislation that ensures those reformsstay in place but also preserves the agility and the utility of the tools what we need to be able to protect theAmerican people well I appreciate that and I do think you our Reform Bill had the notion oftrust but verify so that we would literally legislate thereforms um that have put in place add a few others add some of the additionalAmicus uh Provisions we also um one of the things I think that been discoveredthat the majority of the queries that involve Americans are actually on victimnotification uh the very notion of of having a a warrant to have a victimnotification is contradictory in itself I I want to raise another issue that’s been I think it’s been appropriatelyraised and this is the question around you know bulk purchase of uh of personal data I think we need to gomuch further on on uh data protection and I think that has been a failure ofthis Congress to address in its past uh director Haynes I know you’ve done a study on this and um um my fear is thatsome of the proposed reforms would actually not limit foreign entities fromobtaining this data but would limit law enforcement can you talk to the question of U bulk data purchases and dataBrokers yeah absolutely I mean I think from our perspective commercially available information as we sort ofthink about the entire set of what’s out there and what’s been discussed in Congress in relation to this is justincreasingly critical to the intelligence commune’s work and I think you know sort of an obvious example of this is uh commercial imagery and therole that it played for example in the context of the invasion of Ukraine but there’s a whole series of other areaswhere we’re purchasing information such as uh commercial threat information that’s related to cyber security andthings like that and at the same time we recognize that commercially available information raises new and importantissues related to privacy and civil liberties and this is in large part true because you know more of our daily livesare connected digitally um to the world today than ever before and an increasingamount of data about individuals and their activi is often perceived as not especially sensitive on its own isactually available for sale along side increasingly sophisticated analytic tools that essentially um you knowrelying on artificial intelligence can actually in aggregate raise significantprivacy and civil liberties issues that are relevant which is why we basicallysaid look we recognize this is something that is of concern and we want to make sure that we’re actually addressing thisissue appropriately and responsibly within the intelligence community so we had a um a panel an external panel uhlook at at this question and really asked them you know how and under whatcircumstances should we use commercially available information and in particular to reflect on the existing framework forprivacy and civil liberties we’ve published that report um and in fact Senator ween asked us to and as aconsequence put that out and as an intelligence community in our um XCOM as we call it all the heads together agreedthat we thought those recommendations made sense and we have uh issued ICguidance basically for cataloging commercially available information acquired by IC elements to ensure thatour handling of such information is consistent with relevant legal policy security considerations to facilitateoversight and we’ve developed a framework that augments each ic’s elements attorney general guidelines andrelated policies with general principles and additional guidance on how IC elements should access collect processcommercially available information including more precise guidance for identifying and dealingwith categories of information that pose a greater risk of implicating privacy and civil liberty since Cur and finallyas the panel recommended also the framework sets out standards and procedures that govern and requireperiodic reevaluation and acquisition and use decisions and I think the challenge that is uh posed by um some ofthe legislative uh proposals that I’ve seen require for example uh again a sortof probable cause requirement before you can obtain that information similarly we are not going to have um in the scenarioof for example getting uh cyber threat information Comm commercially a probablecause reason for getting that what we’re trying to do is understand what the vulnerabilities are and then what werecognize is that whatever the commercial information is that we’re obtaining we need to treat it in a way that actually mitigates against therisks that have been described thank you Senator Ru director Ray U we are we knowthat over the last three years millions of people um cross the US border illegally and many have been releasedinto the country um have members or people with ties to dangerous gangs likefor example the prison gang dagua from Venezuela were they among the peoplethat came into this country I don’t know that I can speak to the specific gang but certainly we havehad dangerous individuals uh enter the United States of a variety of sorts are we now seeing are we seeing crimes frompeople that entered the country over the last three years some of them with ties to gangs or other criminal organizationswell I guess what I would say is this from an FBI perspective we are seeing a wide array of very dangerous threatsthat emanate from the border and that includes everything from the drug trafficking the FBI alone seized enoughfenel in the last two years to kill 270 million people uh that’s just on thefentel side and awful lot of the violent crime in the United States uh is at the hands of gangs who are themselvesinvolved in the distribution of that fenal but we’re also you’re also seeing and tracking local law enforcementarresting and and for example The Assault on the police officers in New York all the reporting said they hadties to this gang in particular but there’s no doubt that people that were criminals in their country of originhave crossed that border and are now in the US committing crimes correct um is there now a black market emerging tosell uh we’ve seen reports of a black market emerging selling social fake social security cards fake green cardshave you seen reporting on that well certainly there is a uh on the dark net for example there is asignificant Marketplace for different kinds of stolen identity what about the street uh I think as well yeah okay andand um well there are smuggling networks all over the world that specialize in moving people from all over the world umincluding from the Middle East Central Asia and so forth are we aware of any of these smuggling organizations are run byor um are conducted by people that have ties for example to Isis or other terrorist organizations so I want to bea little bit careful how far I can go in open se but there uh you know there is a particular Network um that has uh wheresome of the overseas facilitators of the smuggling Network have Isis ties uh thatwe’re very concerned about uh and that we’ve been spend an enormous amount of effort with our partnersinvestigating um uh exactly what that network is up to uh is something that’sagain the subject of our current investigation but there is a network we’re concerned about that hasfacilitators involved in it that have ties to Isis and other terrorist organizations correct um I talked about Tick Tock inthe opening uh just to lay the groundwork here Tik Tock is this American Tik Tok us American company orheadquartered putatively in America and they have this platform which is fascinating right and people it’s veryeffective very good has a lot of members one of the things that powers it is that it is powered by an algorithm based onartificial intelligence where the more you use it the more it learns about you it in essence reads your mind it knows the kinds of videos you like and itfeeds you more and more of them causing you to go back that algorithm is not owned by Tik Tok it’s owned by bitedance a Chinese company correct uh that’s my understanding and so the only way that algorithm works is of thatChinese company has access to the data being generated by Tik Tok the owner of the algorithm bite dance has to hasaccess so it doesn’t matter where the data is stored ultimately they have to have access to it in order to make thealgorithm work correct right I mean I think what you’re getting to is the the key point is that the parent company isfor all intents and purposes beholden to the CCP well the reason why I raised that is if they if B dance in China isthe one that owns the driver that makes Tik Tok effectiveisn’t it true that under Chinese law the Chinese Communist Party says that data that you’re gaining access to in orderto make your algorithm work we want a copy of that data if they said that to bite dance in the future bite dance would have to give it to them that’s myunderstanding and if they went to them and said we want you to change your algorithm so that Americans start seeing videos that hurt this candidate or helpthat candidate in the upcoming election bance would have to do that under Chinese law that’s my understanding andif they said we want you to put out videos that make Americans fight fight with each other or spread conspiracy theories and get them at each other’sthroat bite dance doesn’t have can’t go to Chinese court and fight the Communist party they would have to do it that’s myunderstanding and I would just add that that kind of influence operation or the different kinds of influence operationsyou’re describing are extraordinarily difficult to detect which is part of what makes the National Securityconcerns represented by uh by tiktock so significant all right thank youthank you very much Mr chairman and my thanks to all of you and of course the people you work with every day I’m goingto start with this issue of government purchases of Americans data and formeracting CIA director Mike Morell presents something of a different view on this hehas said that the amount of information available for the government to buy would quote knock your socks off and ifit were collected through through normal intelligence methods it would be top secret information kept under lock andkey I believe Mr Morell is right it is the wild west out there in terms ofsensitive information on Americans and the government can buy it up unlikenormal intelligence collection there are apparently virtually no rules here totake one public example I want to uh go to you General Cruz not to be goingafter you you especially but you said that the defense intelligence agency hasacknowledged it obtains and purchases actual Us location data so my questionfor you and any other members who would like to add to it are there anyconstitutional or statutory limits on your agency’s purchasing of the locationinformation of Americans constitutional or statutory limitany thank you for the question uh Senator widen I would say yes there are absolute uh and very clear guidelinesfor all of us and when we purchase the bulk data uh the first thing we do is we exclude all of the data uh that iswithin US Territory and is on US citizens as the very first step uh our teams have been here uh with theCongress uh talking through our attorney general guidelines have been speaking with the concerns that you and othershave voiced to and I I think we have built the processes around our um purchasing ofcommercial data and use of commercial I didn’t hear you mentionwhat I asked about either constitutional or statutory limits so why don’t youjust send that to us for the record and I will just say colleagues this is the reason why Congress needs to passlegislation limiting government purchases of Americans information and I also believe the Congress needs to passpassed the bill that I introduced with the vice chairman uh Senator Rubio making sure this information isn’tbought up by foreign countries either so let’s go now to section 702 andobviously the government needs to have section 702 to focus on foreign threatsit is just essential that it be done without throwing aside the Privacyrights of law abiding Americans there is a workable solution under a bipartisanproposal that I’ve been part of the government wouldn’t need a warrant to run searches on Americans to see whothey’re talking to it’s only when the government wants to read the content ofthose private conversations that a warrant would be required even thoughthere are also many exceptions that we have put into the bill exceptions foremergencies consent cyber attacks the list goes on now according to FBI’s datathe FBI looks at content in less than 2% of its searches on Americans so myquestion would be for you director Rey as I’ve described it using your data thedata from the FBI doesn’t our warrant requirement only apply to a tinyfraction of the searches the American the FBI conducts when you factor in allof these exceptions I mean I can go through them but I think you know them you know if there’s any imminent dangerno warrant if there are other dangers you have to go get the warrant later butthe exception list is very long so the question is isn’t it correct that whatwe’re talking about in the bipartisan bill here in the Senate and in the house it would apply to only a small fractionof the searches you’re conducting well I well as a percentage it’s not asignificant percentage certainly the number is significant and I think the fundamental problem with the warrantrequirement before you can look at the content is that it’s the content that tells us whether or notit’s an agent of a foreign power involved so I think that’s part of the problem that we have if the witness willwill pause for a momentimmed ofatcontinue I think where I got cut off was I was just explaining that the the fundamental problem is that in theinstances where we uh need to look at the content the probable cause that’slacking at that point is what’s established by seeing the content that’s what tells us more often than not thatthere’s an agent of foreign power involved and so that’s what enables us to then act and go forward with theappropriate investigative steps so there’s an exception for imminentdanger there’s an exception for in in other emergencies there is an exceptionuh to uh simply conversations with foreign threats I’d like you to send tome so we’ll have this for the record how having those exceptions will in some wayobstruct you when you’re trying to deal with a tiny number of warrants this isall about Americans believing you bet we have foreign threats there’s no questionabout it but we can address those foreign threats in a way that’s compatible with the liberty and thevalues that law-abiding Americans hold I’m happy to work with you on it thank you Mr chairman Senator Collins thank youdirector Haynes you understandably spent considerable time talking about thesignificant threats that Russia China Iran and North Korea posed to ourcountry since the way that our disastrous withdraw from Afghanistanunfolded we’ve also seen a large increase in terrorist attacks conductedby ISIS in fact those number nearly 200and have resulted in some, 1300 casualties so obviously Afghanistanhas sh that once again the Taliban is either unwilling or unable to control terroristgroups are there threats of terrorist attacks from Isis towardAmericans a problem still and how are you balancing the great powercompetition with the threats from Isis in addition I would would like you tocomment on whether or not terrorist groups backed by Iran such as Hamas andHezbollah pose a threat to ourhomeland thank you Senator so in terms of um the threat from Isis which you’reabsolutely right remains a a significant counterterrorism concern for usum most of the attacks that you’re talking about uhglobally taken on by ISIS have actually occurred by parts of Isis that areoutside of Afghanistan in Afghanistan um there Still Remains anIsis concern it has one where uh ironically uh the Taliban has actuallyalso concerned about it because the Isis uh group that is in Afghanistan is infact going after the Taliban and uh and so this is a place where um uh actuallyuh the Taliban has um has taken action against that group in ways that areconsistent with our uh also concerns and interests um so that is one piece interms of the terrorist groups that are backed by Iran absolutely that is amajor issue for us and there are a number of them obviously we often talkabout um Iranian aligned militia groups that have been attacking US forces andAssets in Iraq and Syria in particular but also in other uh parts of the regionattempting to and there have been just uh dozens and dozens of attacks thatwe’ve been looking to manage and that continues to be uh fueled by Iran theyprovide uh weapons they provide training they provide money to those groups andum and we still obviously see them as a destabilizing force in the region we also see Iran’s support of hisbah as younoted and of Hamas over the years and uh and so considerably not to mention thehouthis is another example of this but uh certainly that’s been a a large issueand my colleagues may wish to add to this thank you directorRay we have we know that China is the primary provider of the predecessorchemicals and the pill presses for Fentanyl and you’ve pointed out in yourtestimony the extraordinary scope of the amount of fentanyl that has beenproduced and indeed 80% of the overdoses in main last year involved fentanyl butwhat we’re also seeing in Maine is a new phenomenon that was reported by someenterprising journalists and that is that Chinese Nationals are establishingillegal marijuana growing operations all over the state one public reportestimates there are more than 200 of them primarily in rural Maine they’reunregulated they’re ilicit uh they’re destroying homes because they’re growingthe marijuana inside and the marijuana is verypotent what is the FBI doing to supportlocal County and state officials and why do you think the Chinesehave have sent their citizens to Rural America to establish these illegalgrowing operations well U certainly we’re observing uh the same phenomenon thatyou’re describing I know we’ve had a number of cases that have resulted in indictments uh of Chinese Nationalsinvolved with illegal marijuana grow operations here um and otherwiseinvolved in different kinds of organized criminal activity we are tackling that through working with our state and locallaw enforcement Partners through a variety of task forces we’re trying to share intelligence with them uh to helpuh get ahead of the threat um I’m not sure that I could give you a reason as to why it’s happening uh but that issomething that we’re very focused on you mentioned the precursors to fentanyl the pill presses this issue I would just addto that yet another one which is that uh an awful lot of the meth precursors tothe labs in Mexico also come from China so it’s FAL it’s also meth um and sothere is a certainly a big degree to which problems that we are experiencinghere an acute way Source back to them thank you senathinwick thank you thank you Mr chairman um according to the annual threatassessment Russian President Putin probably believes quote that his approach to winning the war in Ukraineis paying off and the Western and US support to Ukraine is finite end quoteuh for any of you what lessons is PU Putin taking from the US failure to further support Ukraine in its fight forNational survival and what lessons might China’s xiin King learnfrom this failure um Senator I’d be glad to address your question um I just returnedfrom my 10th visit to Ukraine during the course of the war and you know I leftconvinced that we’re at a profoundly important Crossroads for Ukraine for European security and for long-termAmerican interests around the world I think down one road um with supplementalassistance uh approved by the Congress lies the very real possibility of cementing a strategic success forUkraine and a strategic loss for Vladimir Putin’s Russia it’s our assessment that with supplementalassistance uh Ukraine can hold its own on the front lines through 2024 and intoearly 2025 um that um Ukraine can continue to exact costs against Russia not only withdeep penetration strikes and crime IA but also against Russia’s Black SeaFleet continuing the success which has resulted in 15 Russian ships sunk over the course of the last six months inother words with supplemental assistance Ukraine can put itself in a position by the end of 2024 the beginning of 2025where it could regain the offensive uh initiative uh and also put itself in aposition to negotiate from a position of Greater strength and Achieve an outcomein which um Putin’s goal which was to subjugate Ukraine uh and to control itschoices would be denied where Ukraine could sustain itself as a strong Sovereign independent country anchoritself in Western institutions and have the space and the security to recoverfrom this terrible aggression and leave Russia to deal with the long-term consequences of Putin’s brutal andfoolish Invasion down another road however without supplemental assist itseems to me uh lies a much Grimmer future uh Ukraine is likely to loseground and probably significant significant ground in 2024 um I saw you know in the Battle ofabiva which you know in which which forced a rushed withdrawal of Ukrainian forces just a couple of days before Iwas in Kei on this last visit um the consequences of that you know one UKsenior Ukrainian partner described what happened to me he said that you know ourmen fought as long and as hard as they could we ran out of ammunition and the Russians just kept coming and I thinkwithout supplemental assistance in 2024 you’re going to see more of Divas uh andthat it seems to me would be a massive and historic mistake for the United States what lesson do you think the CCPwill take from that I think the consequence of that will not just be for Ukraine or european security Israelexting the Palestinian people children are being starved to death don’t support the extermination ofPalestinian people stop sending arms to Israel stop supporting the starvation ofchildren children are being starved to death today I think will continue sure no Ithink the consequences of that are going to be felt not only by ukrainians and European security but across theindopacific where if we’re seen to be walking away from support for Ukrainenot only is that going to feed doubt amongst our allies and partners in the Endo Pacific it’s going to stoke theAmbitions of the Chinese leadership in contingencies ranging from Taiwan to the South China Sea so that’s what I saw onthis last visit that’s what I think’s at stake for all of us I think the truth isthat the ukrainians are not running out of courage and tenacity they’re running out of ammunition and we’re running outof time to help them uh director let’s jump to the elephant the RO then um I Iwant to thank you for your efforts to secure uh hostage releases in a ceasefire in the MiddleEast Ramadan has now begun um give us to the best of your ability um a little biton where things stand with those negotiations and what flash points youmight be concerned could push us into a more regional conflict over the course of the next month sure um uh for thelast few months uh since uh the last hostage return and ceasefire in thelatter part of November the president’s been working very hard to try to renew that process and I’ve traveled eighttimes to meet with my Israeli Egyptian and guttery partners um and returnedmost recently on Saturday night from the last such trip what’s on the table right now is a potential agreement that hasthree main elements the first would be the return of about 40 hostages theseare the remaining women hostages older men and hostages who are wounded orseriously ill as the first step as the first phase toward the return of all of the hostages which another president isdeeply committed um and that would be in return for a defined number of Palestinian prisoners held by theIsraelis the second element um is um uh a ceasefire of at least six weeksum again as the first step toward what might be more enduring Arrangements overtime um and then the third element would be a major surge in humanitarianassistance which under the circumstances of a ceasefire could actually be distributed effectively to people who sodeeply need them um so we’re going to continue to work hard at this I don’t think anybody can guarantee success whatI think you can guarantee is that the alternatives are worse for innocent civilians in Gaza who are sufferingunder desperate conditions uh for the hostages and their families um who aresuffering also under very desperate conditions and for all of us so we’re going to keep at this than you sen R ohMr chairman I I have a number of questions but uh we got a lot of ground to cover here and mine really need to bein a classified setting because refer to some classified matter so I’m going to reserve till we get in close sessionSenator Hinrich was going to address the real elephant in the room which are some of our audience members accusing you ofpretty serious conduct so director Burns I want to give you a chance to respond to what’s been said um is IsraelExterminating the Palestinian people um Senator all I can say is youknow what I said before I think there are a lot of innocent civilians in Gaza who are uh in Desperate conditions rightnow now I think their hostages and their families who are also in uh desperatecircumstances as well and I think I’ve learned a long time ago in crisis like this that you have to find a practicalgoal and pursue it relentlessly and the goal the president has laid out working with our Israeli guttering and EgyptianPartners I think is the most practical one I can see right now is to produce uma ceasefire of at least six weeks um produce the return of the hostagesultimately all of the hostages and get desperately needed humanitarian relief to people uh who need it in Gaza so sois that a no you do not believe Israel is Exterminating the Palestinian people no I I think I think Israel’s Iunderstand Israel’s need and the president has emphasized this to respond to the brutish attack that Israelisuffered on the 7th of October against Hamas against a terrorist group but Ithink we all also have to be mindful of the know enormous toll that this hastaken on innocent civilians um in Gaza and as the president has said it’s very important for Israel to be extremelymindful of that and to avoid um you know further loss of civilian life directorHaynes do you believe Israel is Exterminating the Palestinian people I really don’t have anything toadd to what director Burns has said I fully endorse what he’s commented on um Israel and you also Stand Accused ofstarving the Palestinian children are you is Israel Starving Children in Palestine or in Gaza you know I thinksen the reality is that there are children who are starving but is Israel doing that they’re starving they’remalnourished as a result to the fact that humanitarian assistance can’t get to them it’s very difficult todistribute humanitarian assistance effectively unless you have a ceasefire which is exactly why you know I thinkthere’s Great Value in what’s on the table now a return of hostages uh and uma significant ceasefire enabling people to get that humanitarian assistance okayfor the record I do not believe that Israel nor any of you or the United States government is Exterminating thePalestinian people or starving Palestinian children director Haynes um there havebeen several news reports you might say leaks to the effect that Iran does not have fullcontrol of its proxy groups um that’s a headline from Politico last month thequote quote while Iran is supporting the proxy groups financially and with military equipment intelligence officials do not believe it iscommanding the attacks it’s lack of control over the houis and the militias and Iraq and Syria has muddied thedeliberations in Washington about how to respond to repeated attacks on us interests in the region including theattack in Jordan on January 28th that killed three American troops but on page18 of the assessment the intelligence Communitywrites Teran was able to flex the Network’s military capabilities in the aftermath of hamas’s attack on octoOctober 7th orchestrating anti-israel and anti-us tax from Lebanon to the babEl mandab Strait while shielding Iranian leaders from significant consequences orchestrating is strongerthan anything I’ve heard it’s not providing support or training orfunding so it’s your assessment the intelligence Community assessment that Teran has orchestrated attacks on Israeland against us personnel and positions in the Middle East since October7th yes and I don’t think that means that uh that the proxy groups or thatothers are always listening to everything that they have to say or under their direct control but I think orchestrating is an appropriate umcharacterization of what they’ve looked to do so it it has to use the dictionarydefinition arranged directed the elements of a situation to produce a d desired effect especiallysurreptitiously that’s correct okay um director burns on page34 of the assessment um the IC notes that the FBI and thedepartment of energy have concluded that the most likely Origins for the Corona virus pandemic was a laboratory in Wuhanbut the CIA cannot agree with that conclusively why can’t the CIA reach the same conclusion that the FBI and thedepartment of energy have reached yeah no our analysts continue to look at this very carefully they have not yetconcluded that there’s definitive evidence on either side of this whether natural transmission or lab accidentwell um we continue to pursue you know more intelligence more information that might help them to reach a definitiveconclusion but right now they’re you know they haven’t been able to reach that director Ray why are your analystsso much more competent uh our analyst did very rigorous work involving a whole slew ofuh Experts of different sorts uh we reached the assessment with moderate confidence and we stand by thatassessment thank you Senator King thank you Mr chairman thanks to all of you and as others have said Thank youto the people who who operate under very difficult circumstances around the world to supply us with this importantinformation director Burns I just want to say your statement to Senator Heinrich about the the impact andlong-term consequences of are abandoning Ukraine is is important and I thinkshould be required reading around here the implications are it’s a 50-year mistake that would haunt thiscountry both in Europe but also as you suggest in in in the Indo Pacificincluding Kim Jong-un uh would assess that we didn’t have the staying powerhe’s already making noises about the peninsula uh director director Ray you you talkedwith SEC Senator Ruby about Tik Tock uh just to reiterate it’s dangerous becauseit allows the Chinese Communist party to have access to an enormous Trove of data about Americans that’s number one isthat correct that’s one of the pieces of it there there’s several and the secondpiece is the the power that the the misinformation and uh sort of policy direction that it enables uh theCommunist Party to exercise correct well I think the second piece is the is thealgorithm right in other words the first is the data the second is the algorithm the third is the software but theproblem is is not Tik Tock it’s the control by by China if Tik Tock were divested and owned by an Americancompany or a Belgian company or a British company we wouldn’t have uh this level of problem is that correct correctthank you um the who controls Mexico are the are theis the government of Mexico in control are in the are the cartels in control and and how do we how do we get at thethe problem of the drugs the the the fentanyl by the way I did a little calculation a minute ago about 15 peoplehave died in this country of overdoses mostly fentel since this hearing started an hour and 20 minutes ago that’s howserious this problem one a day in my state of Maine how do we get control of this thisproblem I’ll start and because there are a lot of us obviously that are working to um help support those who were on thefront lines of this which include the FBI obviously and DEA and DHS and otherswho are really focused on this question but on the first point Senator King with respect to Mexico I mean I think there’sno question that it is a challenge for the government of Mexico to uh to dealwith the um cels and there are parts of the country that are effectively underthe control of um the in certain respects and yet at the same time wouldsay that our cooperation with them has improved over time and I think umdirector Burns and director Ray may have more to say on this but uh but this is an area where we’ve really been able towork with them to try to help to obviously it we have been able to work and we it’s improving but this is adrastic problem that should be treated as such in terms of the impact onAmericans um how maybe this is a DHS question but inp director Ray do we knowhow fentel is actually getting in where is it where’s it coming you mean coming well yeah howdoes it get into the US it’s coming through a variety of means including at ports of Entry um but there’s a varietyof ways it gets in the part of the challenge of fenel is of course how small it is and how easy it is toconceal and how easy it is to be Innovative in ways to get it across the border the vast majority of the fenelthat’s killing Americans is of course coming from Mexico and the vast majority of the precursors for that fentanyl iscoming from China well I I should mention that in the supplemental that’s uh pending in the house which we alwaysfocuses on on Ukraine there’s also a major fentel uh blocking provision thatwould be very important to this country to get to to be have enacted uh as soonas possible uh director hes you’re nodding but the record doesn’t show nodding canyou yes absolutely abolutely it’s not coming to the intelligence community in that case but there are fundingobviously for uh the capacity to do greater detection and things like that that DHS would be uh deploying I believeand among others and absolutely agreed that this is a fundamental issue um and we are yeah we can also talk more inClos session I about some of the organizational things that we’re looking to do to improve but we have a majorBill to address fentel in that supplemental if we can get that out of uh out of its limbo in the house uhGeneral one one one question I’m concerned about a gap NSA can can talkabout foreign intelligence gathering not in the US here’s my worry a StPetersburg Russia uh troll Farm sends or hacksinformation in the United States through a server in New Jersey or Pennsylvania or California does that create a gaptalk to me about the relationship between yourself and NSA and the and andthe uh and the FBI I I just worry that that there’s a there’s a place there where we may we may losecontact uh Senator thank you for the question so so if we think about this right now today in the context of ofthreats to our elections uh we spent an enormous amount of time collaborating across all the elements of the USgovernment to make sure that we’re aligned and that we’re appropriately using our authorities to be able to toGarner whatever information is required to be able to identify a for threat first and foremost we are going tocollect that threat of a foreign intelligence Target outside the United States and so one of those tools thatreally assist in this type of scenario is section 702 and our ability becausein in by its very nature if there’s an origin of that threat that there’s a foreign entity communicating uh withinthe within uh the United States with a Communications provider it offers us anopportunity under Section 702 to Target that foreign intelligence threat outside the United States and so with thereauthorization of section 72 that would ensure one means by which we are able tosee the foreign part of that communication thank you thank you Mr chairman senatCorin director Ray I want to ask you a little bit about some of your testimony about theBorder um last year year 169 individualson the terrorist watch list were detained at the southern border so far this year it’s been58 um we know there were since 2021approximately 1.8 million gotway in other words not people that turnedthemselves in claiming Asylum not people paroled into the interior but 1.8million migrants who were evading law enforcement at the border can you tellus can you tell the American people with any certainty that there are zero peopleon the terrorist watch list that were among that 1.8 million Goda ways well what I would say is you Ithink rightly highlighted um the kind of what you remember secretary Rumsfeld used to refer to the known known theKnown Unknown and the unknown unknown um and I think here many ways the nationalsecurity ramifications of the issues at the border are better reflected in some waysmore by what we don’t know about the people who snuck in provided fake documents or in some other way got inwhen there wasn’t sufficient uh information available at the time they came in to connect the dots is almostmore significant in our view than the actual number of of so-called kstsbecause those people for the most part are stopped detained uh and processedappropriately and I guess you would get answer the same way that people with criminal records members of criminalstreet gangs and others uh being among that 1.87 1.8 million um figure for ummigrants who got away we don’t know what that 1.8 million is composed of do wethat’s correct what we do know is that more than 37,000 Chinese Nationals weredetained at the US Southern Border in 2023 that numbers up 10 times over uhthe earlier tally and um these individuals who were of course detainedsometimes they claim Asylum sometimes they sometimes they’re paroled into the interior but again we don’t know uh howmany Chinese Nationals that may be among that 1.8 million Goda ways that havemade their way into the interior of the United States you would answer the same way right we don’t we don’t know whatwe’re dealing with in that particular context it gets especially challenging because uh presumably within that groupyou’ve got not only people who may mean us harm but also people who are fleeingthe CCP and and uh share our concerns about their authoritarian thuggish thatof course that’s an important point I’m not suggesting all of them are but I’m just suggesting this is a huge gapingvulnerability in our national security that we don’t have answers for I’mreminded that uh there were 26 Coast conspirators uh in the 9/11 attacksagainst the United States uh killing 3,000 people26 people killed 3,000 Americans on 9911I worry that among the people that are coming across the border that areevading law enforcement that there are some people among those that mean to dous harm do you share that concern I do and in fact according to uh publicsources this is CNN August 30 2023 you alluded to this earlier aboutuh dozens of migrants from usbekistan that were being facilitated by asuspected Isis agent in turkey that was uh assisting those migrants to maketheir way to the southern border and into the United States correct so that’s a a threat stream that we’re veryconcerned about we’re very actively investigating working with DHS on both people whose travel was facilitated butalso members of the facilitation Network in some other way overseas uh there’sprobably more I could share on that in closed session if you would like thank well one of the things that I think thisreveals is that our border situation the uh illegal immigration has changed overthe years it seems to me coming from a border state years ago you would look at people coming across who wanted to workwork wanted to provide for their family now of course we understand people fleeing violence and poverty things likethat but also we see the poll factors the fact that if you make it to theBorder you can likely stay for the rest of your natural life is an enormousmagnet for people to come but also um and not just people who have benignintentions toward the United States who want a better life but also people that want to do us harm um I know sometimespeople say well this is just a cons this is just a fantastic uh Theory it’s nobasis in reality do you consider that to be a frivolous consideration I do not II we and I’ve been I think very vocal about this I we of course are not responsible FBI for the physicalsecurity of the Border we work hard to be good partners with DHS uh on that butthere are a whole host of threats that emanate from the border um and some ofthem are criminal threats we talked about F violence and then of course we have concerns uh that it could be avulnerability that uh terrorist organizations could seek to exploit Iwould add that we are not at the moment tracking any specific terrorist plot uhcoming across the border in that regard but it wasn’t that long ago uh as you will recall that we hadindictments uh of an individual who was trying to smuggle uh foreign Nationals across Ross the border to assassinateformer President Bush uh so it goes to your point that numbers are importantbut numbers don’t tell the whole story uh it only takes a few people who can be responsible for a whole lot of harmSenator Bennett thank you thank you Mr chairman and thank you all for being here thankyou for your service director Burns uh the FBI director just mentioned President Bush Ithink you were his our ambassador to Russia when he was president is that right right and yes sir you have one ofthe longest career distinguished careers in American diplomacy and now you’re inthe middle of a negotiation in the Middle East that I think everybody up here hopes that you’re going to besuccessful about in that context I want to ask you about the supplemental billthat has the Ukraine funding in it that’s a bill that passed out of the Senate with 70 votes we almost don’tpass anything around here with 70 votes abroad bipartisan and recognition of theimportance of that bill I agree with your assessment and the intelligencecommunity’s assessment that um Ukraine has the possibility to Prevail on thisconflict with Russia nobody two years ago would have believed that but the waythey fought uh the way they’ve been able to be supported by our Munitions and ourintelligence um obviously has made a difference but they have succeeded inways nobody could have imagined there are people here and there people in the house that don’t believethat they don’t you know they their assessment is different than the intelligent communities their judgmentis different and that’s fine we we have different judgments but I would ask yousince you’re here uh a little bit about the negotiating posture that Ukraine theWest NATO wants to put ourselves in with Vladimir Putin and considering thatquestion I wonder whether you could talk a little bit about whether or not our NE our negotiating position if you’resomebody who believes in the end that somehow Ukraine can’t Prevailalthough I believe they can uh and and believes only that they can be in aposition to negotiate an end to this why it would be better for us to pass thesupplemental from that Vantage Point than to fail to pass the supplementalno thanks very much Senator I mean I think today first I’ll start with Vladimir Putin and Russia I don’t it’sour assessment that Russia is not serious about negotiations today in thesense that they may be interested in the theater of negotiations but they’re not really interested in negotiating in thesense of compromise right now because as director Hayne said in her opening remarks I think President Putin believesthat time is on his side that he can grind down the ukrainians and wear down the rest of us so if you look at theprospect of a more serious negotiation in the future it’s essential for Ukrainefirst with our support to disabuse the Russian leadership of otion in otherwords to puncture his confidence that times on his side to demonstrate that for Russia also there are long-termconsequences to this war they’ve already suffered enormously in terms of their military 315,000 plus dead and woundedfour times uh the casualties that the Soviet Union suffered in a decade of warin Afghanistan the destruction of something on the order of two-thirds or their pre-war tank inventory andlong-term Economic Consequences which you know is fast making Russia the economic vassel of China uh not tomention a much stronger uh and bigger NATO that they have to face today so thechallenge in 2024 is helping the ukrainians not just to hold their own but to continue to impose costs so thatthey’d be in a position of Greater strength greater leverage in a negotiation and I think that would be myanswer to that question if you want to get to a serious negotiation you have to help the ukrainians demonstrate thatPutin’s wrong in his notion that time is on his side that logic seems fairly compelling to me let me ask you anotherquestion since you serve Republican and Democratic presidents over many decadesyou hear people in this building say that the United States of America um has to give up on our supportfor Ukraine uh an actual conflict with Vladimir Putin an actual conflict withRussia because of the fear that we will not be able to afford um some plausible butnevertheless theoretical conflict with China in the future do you believe the United States of America cannot handleuh our commitment with respect to Ukraine and NATO and uh be able to deteruh Beijing as well uh no I don’t believe that I think we’re entirely capable Imean Senator Rubio said this earlier I think the United States well we may not have uncontested Primacy in the worldtoday you know we still have a stronger hand to play than any of our adversaries are Rivals so I believe we’re entirelycapable of continuing to support Ukraine uh in a conflict that has consequenceswell beyond Ukraine and European security and I think sustaining that support for Ukraine not only doesn’tcome at the expense of deterring China it actually helps to deter China whetherit’s in Taiwan or the South China Sea or other places it is our assessment that XI Jin ping was sobered you know by whathappened especially in the first year of the War uh he didn’t expect that Ukraine would resist with the courage andtenacity he that the ukrainians demonstrated he didn’t expect that the United States whom he believes is adeclining power would step up in the way the president has led uh with all of your support uh to show solidarity withUkraine as well that’s had an impact I believe far beyond Ukraine or european security and that’s really what’s atstake today and I I would say we’d look back Mr chairman at that 60 billion dollars and say that it was a bargaincompared to what we would otherwise spend Mr chairman my colleagues my colleagues I think almost all of themwent over a minute and a half so let me just say in the last 15 seconds that I have that the our threat assessmentmentioned I I think the record will stand correctly you you get a couple seconds but we’ve been holding here uhuh director Haynes the U well I’ll I’ll take it for the record but there is inyour in in in the document uh reference to the serious issues that we’reconfronting in space right right now and had I more time to ask you about that Iwe’d have a conv you’ll get a chance and classify Center Moran chairman Warner thank you uh director Burns I was inMexico about a year ago and met with President Lopez oidor and my request among others wasthat he personally intervened with China Chinese leadership and asked for theprecursors to not be imported into Mexico and thereby utilized and ultimately end up as fent andol in theUnited States He committed to doing that my understanding from uh his governmentas well as public sources is that he did uh and is there and then thereseemed to be some level of interest on the part of China in negotiating with usor having conversations with United States about that topic I don’t know that much has come from that but youmake tell me that I’m wrong what explains the Chinese unwillingness to bemore proactive in combating Pre precursor chemicals coming to theUS uh is this um do they have the capability they intentionally inflictingharm on Americans in America is there some quid proquo that they’re lookingfor no I think Senator I mean since the president met with President G inNovember in California there have been some signs of you know greater Chinese seriousness about dealing with thisproblem effectively enforcing their own law because that’s all that we’re askingum when I was in Beijing in late May of last year I raised this issue very directly with my counterparts as welland so I think there are some signs that the Chinese are beginning to address theproblem not just of precursor chemicals but also of pill pressing equipment um certainly they can do more and I thinkthat’s why it’s so important for all of us to continue to push as hard as we can and to make clear as you indicatedearlier that this is a problem not only for the United States but for Mexico and for others around the world so whatwould be China’s reluctance to actually crack down on those exports well I meanI hope that what you’re seeing now is a Readiness to do more I think since November but I think you know that’ssomething that obviously from the president on down we need to continue to reinforce as hard as we can because theydo bear some responsibility for what’s happening in our own Society General Cruz uh how do you assess the currentbalance of military power between um in the Pacific today United States andChina and others I think I would describe thebalance of power today as China is on a rise that it has been planning for multiple fiveyear periods and it hasexecuted that development that training that exercising in a way that has put them in a position that at some point inthe not too distant future in accordance with she’s own goals they will be aworld leading military power uh the United States though is the world’s leading military power today and so theimperative piece for us is to be on that same trajectory uh to match them stride for stride and ensure we stay ahead ofuh the growth that we see in China but there is no doubt uh the growth that you see and has been discussed today inmilitary power associated with China and there rise in all domains uh cyber spaceas well as conventional uh director Haynes has IR Iran sought to use ourborders our poorest borders to conduct terrorist activities in the UnitedStates yeah we have a very good example of um Iran supporting in effect uhefforts to come across the border um to go after former Ambassador uh from SaudiArabia for example there was a a case um against our Bobs here in that scenarioum so they have historically attempted this but it’s actually been very challenging for them and uh andsomething that we consistently monitor on a regular basis they prefer to go through to the extent that they’re ableum sort of uh criminal entities and other uh groups as a way of trying toachieve their goals um director Ray um there was reports of our militaryTechnologies being utilized in North Korean military equipment found inUkraine coming from Russia how do we explainthat well I’m I’m I’m definitely tracking similar instance in terms of uhIranian drones for example where us technology uh has appeared as componentsI think part of it has to do with um dual use Technologies uh and companies here notbeing uh perhaps as Vigilant as they need to be about the potential uses of their Technologies and so you know we’retrying to be very heavily engaged with the private sector to uh make sure thatthey’re more thoughtful about who they’re selling to and where their pieces and components may end up SenatorWarner even though you gave Senator Bennett additional time I’ll not ask for any you’re very generous member SenatorCasey Mr chairman thanks very much I want to thank the panel for your testimony today and also for your publicservice I’m going to follow up on the the fenel and and I want want to ask a related question about xylazine and Iknow our colleagues have mentioned um and and ask questions about fentanyl but I’ll start with direct director Reay umto direct your attention to this question about fentel the the threat assessment this year on page 36 saysthat quote China Remains the primary source for illicit fentanyl precursorchemicals in pill press equipment uh unquote and then it goes on to talk about what the cartels do uh it’snoteworthy I think that the US sentencing commission told us that in Fisco year2022 88% of fentel trafficking offenders were US citizens 88% in fiscal year 2186% of fentanyl trafficking offenders were US citizens but we know how it gets here we have apretty good sense of how it gets here we also know the administration announced that it had made um progress some theybelieve some progress in reestablishing coordination with the Chinese government on counteringfenel um I’m increasingly concerned as well about xylazine and other non fenalsynthetic opioids xylazine as as many people know is a powerful Veterinarysedative that is mixed with illicit fenel and unfortunately the city of Philadelphia has become almost groundzero for the proliferation of illicit xylazine according to DEA xylazine wasdetected in nearly half half of all fental related overdoses in Philly sodirector Ray I wanted to ask you is it is the Chinese government holding up its end of the bargain and cracking down onilc illicit uh fentanyl traffickerswell I would say the scale of the problem that we’re continuing to see uh suggests to me that there’s a whole lotof room for improvement from the Chinese government let me just put it that way uh you mentioned xylazine uh certainlyxylazine is of concerned to us you’re right uh that the Philadelphia area is a place where we’re seeing certain amountof that we’ve got a lot of Investigations in the Philadelphia and Newark areas um of course one of theproblems of zine as you I’m sure know is it’s not responsive to Narcan so thatjust adds to the challenge um and certainly xy’s been found in drugcombinations and I think maybe uh 48 of the 50 states or something uh and it’syou know very easy to buy unfortunately online from chinab based suppliers so I think that just adds to the problem weare in addition to our investigative work trying to engage uh in your area uhand nearby areas with hospitals and state diversion group groups and things like that to try to raise awarenessabout it um but xylazine is not a controlled substance currently under theUS control substance act so that’s just an additional kind of aggravating circumstance and also a related questionto what extent is regulation by China of xylazine and other non- fentanylsynthetic opioids part of US law enforcement’s discussions with their Chinesecounterparts certainly uh trying to work with the Chinese on their ControlledSubstances listings um is a key part of it now part of the problem with precursors of course is that there’s analmost infinite number of variations that people can come up with so even if they’re when they schedule things uh yousee new ones you know crop up in their stad and so I think that just adds to the challenge um you know you ask howserious are they I would just point to the sheer volume that we’re contendingwith uh and I think that tells you all you need to know about how serious the Chinese are so far so far in helping usaddress the problem and director hes I want to ask you about Iranian um evasionof sanctions we know that in since the imposition of increased sanctions against Iranian oil in 2018 and 19 Iranhas been increasingly successful in finding ways to evade uh sanctions andits oil revenues are increasingly Rising I know the administration’s focus onblocking Iran’s oil exports how is the intelligence Community supporting the adadministration’s efforts to impose further costs on Iran including by focusing on on identifying andsanctioning so-called ghost Fleet vessels carrying Iranian oil and Chineserefineries purchase purchasing Iranian oil thank you Senator yeah I mean we’revery involved is the short answer but the longer answer and we actually do um periodic reports to Congress thattell you about some of the work that we do in this area where we’re identifying where we see sanctions evasion where wesee opportunities for uh essentially additional targets for sanctions thatmight be acted on you know that are sort of third parties or others who are involved in these transactions so thatum the treasury Department and others can in fact uh go after them in that respect and it’s a constant and criticalissue Mr chairman thank you Senator L thank you thanks to all of you team that youwork around please pass on our thanks and our gratitude to them they work very hard most folks will never know who theyare and not get a chance to be able to say Thank you so please pass that on uh as well I I do want to continue some ofthe conversation about the Border because while we’re dealing with Worldwide threats we’re seeing the worldwide threats coming towards us andsome obvious vulnerabilities in this as has been mentioned talked about in thepast well in this fiscal year 58 people on the terot watch list that have been identified and picked up there’s also acategory called special interest aliens direct Ray I know you’re you’re familiar with that as well uh the specialinterest aliens let me U many people may not know this definition I’m just going to read it what this designation is itsays the special interest aliens a non us person who based on analysis of travel patterns potentially poses anational security risk to the United States or its interest often such individuals or groups are employingtravel patterns known or evaluated possibly have a Nexus to terrorism do we have a listing of how many peopleuh have crossed our Southern border that we have identified in this fiscal year that are special interest aliensdirector R do you know that number I I don’t know that number uh but I we could follow up with you to see if that’s asomething we could provide it has been one of our challenges to try to identify that while on the teror watch list uh wecan get that number and know that is 58 exactly when we ask the issue of special interest aliens we’re told often that aslong law enforcement sensitive we know the number is in the thousands but havenot been able to get a specific number or a specific tracking on that so that’d be helpful to be able to know becausethe next question is the obvious one of those individuals that they’re coming in and I’m just going to give you the number if it’s in the thousands is FBIcontacted when these individuals that are coming across our border released into the country because the vastmajority of the SI we don’t have a criminal background information on them we have a theory so they’re releasedinto the country currently is the FBI kept in contact from DHS and others who those individuals are or what kind oftracking and monitoring is on those individuals I I know that we work closely with DHS especially CBP on theissue of special interest aliens including uh a whole lot of work on the other side of the border to try to prevent them from coming in in the firstplace and I know there are instances where we’re contacted but I I’m not sure that I as I sit you right now I can tellyou that we’re contacted in every in every instance okay that’s s pH Mr H you hav got a lot of questions today and weneed to give you some some need to get some attention here obviously the state department is very engaged in this and trying to be able to figure out for theintelligence side of the information sharing those individuals that are crossing the border right now from manyof those countries we don’t have any criminal information on these individuals do you know how just offandhow many countries that are coming into the United States when they’re crossing our Southern border we have criminalbackground information let me give you for instance Venezuela we were talking about Venezuela and gangs earlier andthose individuals that are Crossing into the country many of them being paroled into the country is Venezuela freelysharing their criminal records with us do we know if these individuals have a criminal record thank you Senator um I don’t knowexactly if Venezuela is sharing specific information with us what I can say though about Venezuela obviously is thatwe’ve seen you know over 7 million Venezuelans immigrate from the country since 2017 a significant portion of whomobviously have uh have immigrated to the United States States uh legally um butwhen we do get relevant information from our counterparts at DHS and FBI our analysts use that to help inform theirjudgments one of the challenges that we have as well for individuals for instance currently Nicaragua is not taking people back on that and we’re alldependent on State Department to impose some sort of consequences on Nicaraguato say you’re raling country you’re not taking people back on that do you happen to know any of the conversation rightnow between Nicaragua and the United States on trying to deal with r because we do have a a tracking of somethat are have criminal records that are coming towards us and to consider that a threat Senator I don’t have specifics onthe details of Engagement with Nicaragua happy to follow up with you offline that’d be great thank you uh very muchfor that director let me let me come back to you and talk a little bit about C fats this is a an acronym most peopledon’t know the chemical facility antiterrorism standards we’ve had thatsince 2007 it expired in July of last year and has not been Reed authorized yet one ofthe aspects of that is for a chemical facility Refinery whatever it may be uhthey have the ability to be able to check against the terror watch list uh using this Authority on that with thatexpiration there’s about 9,000 people a month that used to be checked on that just in the hiring in the process of allover the country we have about 63,000 people we’re estimating that have not been checked my question for you is dowe have any idea how many people show up as a as a hit on the teror watch list from the hiring and the past uh thatwhen we do that check on it which now is not occurring because we’ve not reauthorized this how many folks do pingon that Terror watch list I’m not sure I can give you a number sitting here right now uh uh but I will tell you I I shareyour concern about the laps in the authorities um and one of the challenges this particular space is of course itdoesn’t take many for it to be a real problem uh and we rely on that Authority or wehistoric have to protect could could you say could you say that number is not zero as far as how many people havepinged on the terot watch list when that when that has been run in the past correct yeah thank you I think you’vegiven a number of the witnesses homework assignments there um SenatorJ they’re doing by if you want to defer to Senor Kell I’d be happy to but we are doing byseniority Mr chairman um in New York Capital Region uh the Albany nanotechcomplex is set to house some of our nation’s most advanced electronics research development and Manufacturingparticular Fields like wafer processing manufacturing and lithography tools today’s annual threat assessment pointsout that China currently lags behind the US in developing the most advanced chips giving them cause to steal ourtechnology which we’ve seen them do over and over I included legislation in last year’s NDA requiring DOD to establish apilot program to enable collaboration between the nsa’s cyber security collaboration Center and the USsemiconductor manufacturers to improve the cyber security and semiconductor design and Manufacturing process umGeneral H how is the NSA working with the FBI to create safeguards againstEspionage and cyber attacks at leading public research facilities and at semiconductormanufacturers Senator thank you for the question so so in terms of how we think about the China cyber threat um it isclear that they are going to be relentless to to intend to steal intellectual property um and so from ourperspective part of what it uh NSA is really focused on doing is Illuminatingthat threat so we have done a series of unclassified advisories with a number ofPartners elements across US Government six other nations multiple companies toilluminate that threat in a way that allows us to get now Unity of actionagainst that threat unclass classified reports to allow increased Unity of action so from the FBI’s perspectivethey’re a teammate and in everything that we do that talks about the Cyber threat within the United States um andfrom a specific look at semiconductors critical technology that that clearlyChina wants to catch up on and from our perspective an area that we will continue to identify those threats andcommunicate those both through the FBI and then through unclassified advisories wherever we can can jger Ray I wouldjust add agree with everything General Hawk just said I would just add to that we have uh set up Counter Intelligencetaskforces uh in all 56 field offices including uh in the Albany uh area uhand NSA is a key participant with us in the our national effort in that regard and one of the in addition to theunclassified information that can be shared through the good work that we do together um one of the advantages to theFBI uh engaging with private compan companes is because we get information from so many different sources there aretimes when we can share information with a private sector entity in a way thathelps protect nsa’s sources and methods just because that doesn’t clearly get identified as this is something NSA toldus um research from the center for countering digital hate found that theleading AI image generators create election disinformation in 41% of casesin which they are prompted including images that could support false claims about candidates or election fraud inspite of controls we’ve been told have been put in place this is for the entire panel um have any of you seen foreignadversaries with intent to use generative AI either images videos audio to deceive American voters what are werelying on to advise the public when this inauthentic content appears uh director Ray you canstart uh well I want to think about what I could say here I mean certainly uh AI is something that uh uh all of our uhmost significant adversaries are taking a hard look at to enhance their efforts um uh we have seen AI used in a varietyof settings whether it’s been used specifically to Target voters I’m not sure that I could say that uh but we areactively concerned um about that as the latest Wrinkle in a long-standing effortto engage in information Warfare Char Burns yeah I mean another example is umwe’ve seen evidence that um al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has used AI togenerate videos aimed at inspiring Lone Wolf attacks as a result to the Gazaconflict as well director Haynes yeah I think another example is Russiadeploying AI tools in the context of their influence efforts in Ukraine and there we’ve seen for example I think itwas in March 2022 there was a a deep fake of the Ukrainian president zalinskyasking ukrainians to lay down their arms and ultimately had to be actually countered by president zinsky in orderto address did we give them the information or capability to do that quickly the ukrainians yes we workedwith them on that General Hawk so in terms of of howwe’re thinking about AI security uh NSA established an AI security center partof that is to be able to generate and and communicate to anyone that is building a model in the United Statesfrom an AI perspective what are those threats and what are the security mechanisms to ensure with uh to avoidmisuse of those models we’re also using the AI security Center for how we applyall of the ethical and safety standards of of how the department will leverage AI but really uh the last componentwould be how do we communicate to those companies the threats that they will have of their technology and how it willbe employed so go ahead sure Senator quickly you’re right to raise this as athreat and I think our view of it is that um tools like generative AI willessentially lower the barrier for uh actors State and non-state with fewer resources to engage in potentialelection interference and general K uh from A dia perspective I don’tthink I would add anything to what has been covered here other than uh The Counter Intelligence portion of that that has a touch point across everythingthat’s already been mentioned I I would inate sen gentleman um at the Munich security conference somethingparticipated in there were 20 tech companies that came together most of the social media companies on a voluntarybasis to indicate both water water marking and willingness to take down AIgenerated um video and voice that were affecting elections but it was voluntaryand the proof will be in the pudding and and just for the record no one said they have a plan to tell the American peopleor to advise the American people this committee will be having public he he ings on this subject U very shortly thatsenat Rubio and have agreed upon uh Senator rounds thank you Mr chairman first ofall thank you to all of you for your service and to your teams as well umdirector Ray with regard to PR the PRC and uh some recent public reports of uhsignificant egg land purchases um if the these land purchasesare accurate they may very well pose uh a threat to not only some militaryinstallations but most certainly involved in food production that that uhtakes away from our ability to produce for our own country as well but just curious about whether or not you areaware could confirm land purchases by Chinese nationalists within the UnitedStates and are you following them at this time so uh this is an issue that we’refocused on a lot lately um I think what I would say is we’re investigating a number of instances proactively wherewe’re seeing uh either commercial real estate or land being purchased by thosewith ties to the PRC uh near critical infrastructure andI want to be clear of course foreign purchase of land including Chinese purchase of land is not itselfinherently illegal the the problem is the risk and as has been discussed muchhere already in a different context uh the hold that the Chinese government andthe CCP have over its businesses in particular um and so we’re particularlyconcerned about situations where a purchase of land near a military installation critical infrastructuresomething like that could be leveraged to enable anything from Espionage datacollection or or Worse do you know if if the tools that we have in place today are are strong enough or capable ofstopping these purchases from moving forward well I mean certainly a lot oftypes of of transactions you know go through the cfus process but I’m not clear on whether or not that fullyextends to all the kind of land purchase situations that we’re concerned about um we are working with uh through the cfisprocess when that applies we’re working with the USDA to try to work towards maybe some kind of mandatory reportingregime uh you know that might uh apply so I think there is room for uh plugginggaps that may exist thank you I’d like to also ask with regard to AI inparticular look bottom line is it’s not going away it’s something that we’re going to have to deal with right now itappears as though we lead the world in regard to AI capabilities but mostcertainly our near-peer adversaries recognize that and they’re going to do whatever they can as a shortcut to ourcapabilities AirLand sea space and cyberspace I’m just with regard to theadvances uh with AI right now I’m concerned as much about China and Russiaand their capability to use AI to develop weapon systems that we havenever really thought about as being uh in the Forefront of a major and directthreat to the United States I want to talk about biologics uh in particular um we knowthat China and Russia have significant capabilities with regard to Ai and thatusing AI you can make rapid advances as you’ve noted on pages 30 through 33 inyour report that that that with AI you can you can very rapidly develop yourbiologics I’m concerned about the fact that that it may very well be used as a weapon system I’m not sure who to directthis to but I’ll start with with with director Ray and if you’d like to pass this on that’s fine but seems to me thatthis is an area that if we’re not ahead in time to be able to identify and stop them that um this is probably as much ofa threat to the United States as any other real that we’ve got today well I I’ll start and others may want to chimein uh more from a military perspective but what I would say is that from an FBI perspective one of our priorities isprotecting American AI innovation from theft especially fromthe Chinese America leads the world in AI Innovation uh and AI is often toSenator gillibrand’s question for example about detecting deep fakes and one of the best weapons against AI isbetter Ai and so we need to protect that Innovation and we’re keenly concerned that the Chinese which have uh as I’vetestified repeatedly a bigger hacking program than every other major Nation combined if they steal our AI to powerit it makes words like force multiplier sound like an understatement and may Ijust in in one last thought just on page 32 of your report you make it clear that Russia China Iran and North Koreaprobably maintain the capability to produce and use path pathogens and toxins and China and Russia have provenadapt at manipulating the information space to reduce trust and confidence incountermeasures and US biotechnology and research thank you thank you Mr chairmansenor thank you Mr chairman uh thank you to our panel director Ray I believe you noted this earlier but do you share myview that the threat of terrorism associated with unlawful entry through the southern border poses a seriousthreat to US National Security uh I yes I’ve testified repeatedly that we are concerned aboutthe uh terrorism implications uh from potential uh targeting of vulnerabilities at theborder how would you assess the present level of of threat and risk of a terrorist attack in the United Statescompared to past periods during your tenure well I even before October 7th uhI would have told this committee that we were at a heightened Threat Level from a terrorism perspective in the sense thatuh it’s the first time I’ve seen in a long long time the threats from homegrown violent extremists that isjihadist inspired extremists domestic violent extremists foreign terrorist organizations andstate sponsored terrorist organizations all being elevated at one time since October 7th though that threat has goneto a whole another level uh and so this is a time I think for much greater vigilance uh than has maybe been calledupon of us uh before October 7th is the FBI postured to understand the extent ofthe terrorist threat associated with the southern border we’ve been briefed on some specific threats do you feel thatuh you know enough to assure us that the FBI is as well across it as you can be or do you need more resources do youfeel you’re Flying Blind and and uh not able to define the potential scope and extent of the threat I think we areworking very hard with our partners but there’s no question that we need more resources to combat the threat uh I’lljust give a concrete example uh we uh through working with DHS they collectDNA samples uh and we provide kits to DHS to collect DNA samples from thepeople coming across the border that then gets sent to the FBI lab that’s part of why we asked for a significantenhancement because of the sheer increase in people coming across means a sheer increase in the number of samplesthat need to be collected that’s what helps us identify those people if they’re then committing crime somewherein the United States or as happens all too often Unfortunately they go back across the border and try to illegallyre-enter again so we need to be able to process those samples quickly there’s a backlog we asked in the 24 budget forfor enhancement not only we not get enhancement there was a 10% cut to the terrorist screening Center so uhwhatever happened in 24 happened in 24 but I would urge Congress as we look at fiscally here 25 that we can’t doubledown on those cuts if we’re going to be serious about protecting the Border well speaking of Congress I think it’s worthnoting that a serious tough bipartisan bordersecurity measure was put forward in the Congress in fact co-authored by aConservative Republican member of this committee which would have surged enforcementresources to the border which would have provided substantial resources to fight cartels and to crack down on fentanyltrafficking which would have tightened Asylum standards and expedited adjudication and therefore removaltimelines for those who were trying to enter the country without a valid reasonto former president put out the word that he wanted the bill stopped for political reasons and the bill wasstopped in fact Not only was the bill stopped in the Senate it was denied even a debate on the senate floor and thisspeaks to the corrosive impact of extreme partisanship and polarization in this country on our nationalsecurity so I’d like to ask you director Haynes how do our adversariesview the impact of political extremism and polarization and partisanship onAmerica’s strength and stability we’re talking about worldwide threats thosethreats can exploit our own Frailty here at home I think the best way I can answerthat question is to point to the fact that we’ve seen that both Russia and China for example have taken theopportunity to uh highlight where there’s political dysfunction or otherissues that they see in the context of our governance and use it as part of their information operations globallyboth to sort of highlight uh for example to their own populations that you knowdemocracy is quite challenging and would you really want this at home kind of thing and also to uh demonstrate to ourallies and partners that maybe we can’t be relied on as effectively thank you director Haynesthank you all for your testimony sen Kelly thank you Mr chairman I’ve uh and thank you uh everyone for being heretoday I’ve been sitting here since 2:30 there’s also there’s often a maybe anadvantage for going last in one of these hearings um I was going to say it wasthe elephant in the room until until my colleague from Georgia brought it upbut uh as I’ve sat here I’ve heard most members of this committee ask somethingabout the southern border uh not everybody but the majorityI spent a lot of time on the border uh perhaps more time than maybe anybody onthis committee maybe with the exception of Senator Corin um who I’ve traveled to the borderwith and I strongly agree with what most of my Democrat and Republican colleagueshave said about the problems and the challenges you know fental coming northprecursors often from China heading south violent extremistorganizations uh Chinese migrants who might be in you know Maine um selling rather strong uhmarijuana Isis Iran proxies problems in Mexico I mean over and over again theypointed out all these problems and I’ve worked on this issue providing more pay for border patrol uhclosing gaps in border wall along the southern border you know where they make sense and they certainly do in a lot ofplaces more money for NOS to help border patrol uh director Ray pointed outtalking about how we need more resources to combat the threat and it helps when DHS gets thoseresources and we had the opportunity to do something about it we really did more money for technology including fentanyldetection more border patrol agents more asyl Asylum officers more authorities torapidly expel individuals a change in the credible fear standard more money for detentionfacilities more visas to reunite families and all this this legislationwas endorsed by the border patrol Union and it had strong bipartisansupport until it didn’t and my colleague from Georgiapoints out why it didn’t director Ray is it in yourassessment that more resources and stronger policy that couldhelp your partners not necessarily the FBI but DHS is that your assessment thatthat would help deal with all these things that were mentioned in this Committee hearingtoday well I’ll leave it to other to speak to policies but certainly in terms of resources um not just for DHS but forthe FBI uh we need more resources to deal with all the threats that emanate from the border that we’re responsiblefor director Haynes I don’t have anything to add tothat director Burns nope I don’t have anything to add I agree all right well I’m gonna uhyield back the remainder of my time because I think it’s um you know the failure of that legisation that alone presents a national security threat to this country in myview thank you Mr chairman well thank you let me thank my members and let me also just say for a momentum we have strong views on this committee but one of the things I think that we have always taken some pride isthat we can agree without questioning each other’s patriotisms without question each other’smotives um and I I hope hope that tenor will be maintained members on thisside feel very strong I felt very strong On the Border Bill members on the other side raise legitimate questions aboutthe Border as well I do hope particularly as we deal with our intelligence professionals the one thingwe’ve tried to have this committee always do and I I frankly I learned from people like Richard Burr and DianeFeinstein and Saxby chamblas is that that disagreement at least in terms ofthe intelligence committee should not go in terms of at commum attacks um I don’tthink I heard that I heard huge policy differences we ought to have those uh but the one thing I hope and pray isthat we maintain this notion because the intelligence professionals who never get the recognition they need look to thiscommittee to be I hope an island of Sanity in an otherwisesometimes challenging political environment that doesn’t take away anybody’s views doesn’t take awayanybody’s right to have those views but I have enormous respect for every member of this committee regardless of whichside of the aisle they sit on and we’re going to go at it time and again um butI hope we owe our intelligence professionals that um that kind of notion that just because we’re ondifferent political uh sides of the L that neither political party has a monopoly on Truth or patriotism uh andwe can have differences of opinion without questioning each other’s truth and or patriotism and with that Mrchairman I’d like to claim my time please well uh Mr chairman uh first of all Ican’t let this go the last two speakers on the Democratic side without responding look this committee I’ve beenon this for 15 years and we do a really good job until politics uh do creep in and that’s what’s happened here thisafternoon with the last two speakers these are the facts the last president of the United States closed the Borderhe closed the Border down to almost zero crossings by the time he left office hedid it even though he was sued over and over and over again by people from the other side of the aisle but he shut itdown and he shut it down under the law that’s in effect today Congress has done its job it passed a law saying youcannot enter the United States without authorization That’s the Law uh today when the current president came in weall know he took the policies of the former president tore them up and uh and rescinded them and now we have what wehave as far as the Bild that’s concerned everybody’s talking about the former president making phone calls he nevercalled me but I can tell you this I will not vote for any bill that allows anyillegals to cross into this country and everybody here knows that bill would have allowed 5,000 a day to come intothis country that’s not for me and I don’t care if the president calls me or doesn’t call me I’m not my my red lineis not one what we need to do is enforce the laws that we have you want to talk about the front door and how we let themin the front door I’m all in the back door’s got to get closed closed thank you Mr chairman and I would simply addthat for the former president and a number of my Republican colleagues had repeatedly said to make the kind ofchanges you need permanently on The Bard you need legislation and that’s an thatis an ongoing debate it’s a debate that we’ll have here and elsewhere um but Iand what we need and and the thing that the most important last comment I’ll make uh because we will be breaking andgoing into close set it is we need an intelligence Community that’s going to never beafraid to tell truth the power and Truth to power sometimes means telling us onboth sides of the aisle what we don’t necessarily want to hear uh I think you the the thewitnesses and frankly the men and women literally thousands of them who you represent uh do that on a regular basisand at the end of the day while we may Hassle and haggle over some of these policy things the most important thingyou’ve got to do is keep keeping that speaking that truth to power even when we don’t want to hear we are adjourneduntil we move into the classifiedsetting
Last Updated on March 14, 2024 by Real KBrett